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CAUTION LIST BY IBA!!!!!!!!!!!
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mjoshi10



Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: CAUTION LIST BY IBA!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

 

Dear Friends and professionals

IBA is maintaining a Caution list on it's website and

they have sent a letter to all bank's to ensure that no Valuer

named in the caution list is in their panel.

Complience is required every three months, (Copy of List is available with us and can be shared if demanded)

In Punjab it has devastated carrier of three of our fellow valuers, We have already initiated legal action against publication of their names in this list without following proper procedure.

Legal notice to 53 bankers/ office bearers of IBA have been served. (We in Ludhiana are united to fight for rights of our fellow valuers and if need be , we will be stopping the work for the bank who has reported these names totally arbitrarily and without following the set procedure)

Is there any other valuer across India , who has suffered due to this list ? Please contact me and we can provide number of documents pertaining to procedural errors in maintaining this list.

Regards

Manish joshi.

Secretary -IOV Ludhiana Branch

Vice president- Practising Valuers Association Of Ludhaina

093169-12191, 0161-2564352, 0161-3264396

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djagan1949



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:12 pm    Post subject: CAUTION LIST BY IBA!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Dear Valuers,

This is a very bad precedent. It is like banning a driver from driving a car once involved in any accident. Proper analysis must be done before taking a step like this killing their career.

Regards

Vr. D.Jagannathan

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ValueAddConsultants



Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: CAUTION LIST BY IBA!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

[quote="mjoshi10"]

 

Dear Friends and professionals

IBA is maintaining a Caution list on it's website and

they have sent a letter to all bank's to ensure that no Valuer

named in the caution list is in their panel.

Compliance is required every three months, (Copy of List is available with us and can be shared if demanded)

In Punjab it has devastated carrier of three of our fellow valuers, We have already initiated legal action against publication of their names in this list without following proper procedure.

Legal notice to 53 bankers/ office bearers of IBA have been served. (We in Ludhiana are united to fight for rights of our fellow valuers and if need be , we will be stopping the work for the bank who has reported these names totally arbitrarily and without following the set procedure)

Is there any other valuer across India , who has suffered due to this list ? Please contact me and we can provide number of documents pertaining to procedural errors in maintaining this list.

Regards

Manish joshi.

Secretary -IOV Ludhiana Branch

Vice president- Practicing Valuers Association Of Ludhaina

093169-12191, 0161-2564352, 0161-3264396

[/quote]

Dear Manish Joshi,

I congratulate you for positing msg on site. I really appreciate your efforts and concern. Having said that where you colleagues,council members and office bearers of IOV and PVAI.

This was going on since long. Our fellow brothers react when they become victim. It is very late. However it is good to know that at-least now they are getting united.

Such fragmented approach by one branch of IOV will not able to withstand force of such a big IBA backed their such a large members banks management and some what RBI and Govt.

It is a collective efforts of IOV, PVAI, RICS, CVSRT, IIV, IOS Institution of Engineers, Council of Architecture. We need to collect a fee from each member and create a paid task force to combat such day to day illegal harassment to every valuers in India.

It is nature of India legal system that you get justice very late. By the time you get justice your time is finish. Hence can not get benefited from such favorable judgment and only stratified with mental peace that i was right.

Having said that people who are culprits law takes it's own time to catch them and during that time they enjoy in whichever fashion they want to.

Hence my request is to organize frequent gathering of member to wake up top management of the our institution and educate them to bring change in the system in addition to yearly seminar and magazine they print religiously.

Our Friend TD Suresh Babu is doing regularly a very good social service of valuers on this site by posting msg.. However no one bothered to support him to date. they are few others as well. However all are after some time get tired due to no response from fellow valuers.

Please do something to save profession for god sack. Don't get greedy in day to day assignment fees and get engaged in delivering that. Also contribute some time and money to save profession.

Hope you all like my idea. If yes kindly comment accordingly. If not post critical comments however your response more than 100 number is necessary.

Mohit Mehta

Mumbai

9892489265

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tdsb



Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 675

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sri.Mohit Mehta and our friends,

Pl. look in the same IBA site IBA vide their circular no.C& I/CIR/IEC/2014-15/214/ dated June 24,2014 issued to all Chief executives of all Banks  under the head " Framework  for revitalizing the distressed  assets in the economy" have appointed Sri.P. K Theagarajan, President IOV as one of the commitee members of independent evaluation commitee for TEV study and developing restructuring packages for  projects above Rs.500 Crores.

SRI.RS. Baabu have  nominated his second hand the secretary to look after the affairs of Chennai Branch and Declared himself that he has been THE only valuer in INDIA who is appointed by IBA to undertake such TEV studies and he is too busy  for other works of IOV.

OBIVIOUSLY THE PRESENT PRESIDENT IS BENT UPON DEVELOPING ONLY SRI. RS. BAABU as the best valuer in INDIA and IS not CONCERNED ABOUT THE OTHER MEMBERS nor their welfare!

I  AM SURE THAT  Sri. Rs. Baabu IS GOING TO BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF IOV  very soon with the cooperation of all the  intelligent members and  probably every member  feels that they should start congratulating him in anticipation of the same right from now.HE is being GROOMED and  WILL BE CROWNED by 2015 ! ATleast I will be termed as the best astrologer for predicting the inevitables!!

I want some member to react on this! atleast SRI.MOHIT MEHTA PL..

REGARDS

T D Suresh Babu


 

 

 

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djagan1949



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear friends,

It is feather on the cap for a valuers association to be involved in such prestigious forum.

Regards

Vr. D. Jagannathan

 

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djagan1949



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Manish Joshi,

It is a good idea to engage a paid team working for the welfare of the feternity. Open a bank account and give the accounts details in this forum so that others can contribute. Let this team rope in IOV, PVAI etc so that IBA does not slip the matter citing this forum is not recognized to interact with them.

Regards

Vr. D. Jagannathan

 

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tdsb



Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 675

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr. Jagan, Sri. Mohit Mehta means in reality legal remedy ,because of its delay, brings no remedy in the lifetime of the victims and allows the real wrong doers to enjoy in the lifetime. What my posting in this forum here above means that the presence of the TOP PERSON in any committee does not bring any remedy to any member except THE ONE whom he LOVES and considers as his mentor! Probably things are clearer now ! Regards T D Suresh Babu
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mjoshi10



Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:13 pm    Post subject: United we Stand !!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Thanks all for your point of view.

Dear Mohit Ji and Jagannathan Ji

because we were not getting much support from IOV, We formed PVAL (Practising Valuers association of Ludhiana) where our sole aim was upliftment of profession and restoration of lost dignity of Valuers. PVAL was formulated one years back and now almost 80% of practising valuers in Ludhiana are our members, We collected funds, We engaged two prominent lawyers and faught every unjustified/ unilatrel action taken by any banker against any of our member, We have fired RTI applications, personally met number of bankers and as a landmark decision we are going to stop work for a nationalized bank Monday onwards (If they do not reach a proper legal justified stance in a perticular case).

I think if we stand togather and fight , it is the only way we can survive, We shall not be happy on fellow members misfortune oe else we will face the same fate one day. Even in police investigations we are going with our lawyer and three member team accompanies the valuer in question, In Court cases our lawyer and a two member team is with the valuer, We have achieved some streanght out of these actions and we will continue doing so till we win.

I again tnak you that you spared your time and gave invaluable encouragement to us.

Thanks and regards

Er.Manish Joshi

093169-12191, 0161-2564352, 0161-3264396

 



Last edited by mjoshi10 on Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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tdsb



Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 675

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sri.Joshi and other valuer fraternity members, All the BEST for all your efforts. Our head , intellect, experience and above all our love and affection are with you and the affected brethren. VERY SOON EVERY CENTER OF IOV WILL ADOPT YOUR MODEL and slowly drift away from the uncooperative unchanging self centred undemocratic attitude of the people at the helm of affairs of IOV. Regards, T D Suresh Babu
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mjoshi10



Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Suresh Ji ! your stand and concern is understood, thanks for good wishes. Thanks
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djagan1949



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

 

Dear Manish Joshi

Valuers forum only recognize and certify professionals as technically fit for carrying out assignment. They have no authority to decide or recommend for inclusion of any valuer in the panel of a bank. They do not give any undertaking to indemnify a bank for loss incurred due to any lapse on the part of a valuer. Each valuer approaches banks and impress them earn their confidence and get empanelled and work on the terms and conditions of the bank. When such is the prevailing practice an affected valuer cannot question as a matter of right any valuer’s  forum how they could be a silent spectator for penal proceedings on him. The forum too do not have any legal or moral standing to condom or caution the bank especially when tax payers money is involved.

Therefore my humble opinion is some system has to be evolved to protect the interest of the bank as well professionals like us servicing the bank in good faith. When bank is benefited and booking profit out of thousands of secured credits using our expertise one or two going wrong should not be taken seriously. In a recent Judgment this was highlighted by the learned Judge.

The problem becomes serious only  when bank book a criminal case on valuer. There has to be a tribunal with IBA on one side and valuers forum on other side with some senior and experienced members to analyse the exact reason for the problem and who is responsible. Based on recommendation of such panel only banks should act further. This can at least weed out 50 % of the problem faced presently faced by valuers.

Warm regards

Vr. D. Jagannathan

 

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tdsb



Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 675

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sri. Jagan, IOV HAS BEEN RECOMMENDING the names of the valuers for high valued valuations till today. THEY ARE THE SOURCING POINT for some of the Bank HOs. If you are not aware I fell really sorry. IT IS A OPEN FACT and some office bearers proudly say that they are the beneficiaries! Regards T D Suresh Babu
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djagan1949



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear T D Suresh Babu Ji,

You are technically very good, phylosophically also excellent, you have inherent tendency to participate in others difficulties and help them, you have inborn quality to discourage things not happening in larger interest. I bow and salute to you for these good virtues rarely found with people of today's fast world. But you have to be more  more practical also.

We are living in a country where First Citizen our beloved President Of India or Hon'ble Lok Sabha Speaker or State Constitutional Authority Governer who are supposed to be neutral unbiased are elected after they resign on paper from primary membership of a party. You know the rest how they function.

Verbal recommendations for inclusion in Panel or assaignments will not hold water when some serious lapse is noticed. Only bank and valuer have to face the problem. Sir, let us discuss here only based on available papers or records. We must evolve a good straight forward system for a enduring professional practice. As a member you can give a charter of reasonable demands for our  safe professional practice to IOV or PVAI and say do it.

Warm Regards

Vr. D. Jagannathan

 

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ValueAddConsultants



Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="djagan1949"]

 Dear Manish Joshi

Valuers forum only recognize and certify professionals as technically fit for carrying out assignment. They have no authority to decide or recommend for inclusion of any valuer in the panel of a bank. They do not give any undertaking to indemnify a bank for loss incurred due to any lapse on the part of a valuer. Each valuer approaches banks and impress them earn their confidence and get empaneled and work on the terms and conditions of the bank. When such is the prevailing practice an affected valuer cannot question as a matter of right any valuer’s  forum how they could be a silent spectator for penal proceedings on him. The forum too do not have any legal or moral standing to condom or caution the bank especially when tax payers money is involved.

Therefore my humble opinion is some system has to be evolved to protect the interest of the bank as well professionals like us servicing the bank in good faith. When bank is benefited and booking profit out of thousands of secured credits using our expertise one or two going wrong should not be taken seriously. In a recent Judgment this was highlighted by the learned Judge.

The problem becomes serious only  when bank book a criminal case on valuer. There has to be a tribunal with IBA on one side and valuers forum on other side with some senior and experienced members to analyze the exact reason for the problem and who is responsible. Based on recommendation of such panel only banks should act further. This can at least weed out 50 % of the problem faced presently faced by valuers.

Warm regards

Vr. D. Jagannathan 

[/quote]

Dear Vr.D.Jagannathan,

Thanks for expressing your concern. Please do not worry about tax payers money. Tax payers, Citizen of India and Govt. Bank and RBI has given this responsibility to others.

Valuers job is to do valuation. That what all of us do. Many of them might be doing accurate others may be doing wrong. It depends as you said case to case. There may be mechanism to evaluate their work and renew their membership on yearly basis. Having said that don't tell that to client to evaluate our work. They are not the right person to judge our work. Seeing our expertise they have engaged us.

If you are bothered about tax payers money than why not suggesting to users of our services to higher proper valuers by offering them proper fees to get quality services. It is not only fault of valuers to offer their services at very cheap rate however it is a greater problem from bankers to higher most incompetent valuer to get faster,cheap and high value report.

Sir, by doing over or under valuation as the case may be beneficiaries are not valuer. Beneficiaries are chartered accountant, bankers, agents, borrower etc. So please do proper analysis before blaming any valuer even though his/her work is of poor nature.

It is institute duty to upgrade their knowledge bring proper resolutions for their members to upgrade quality of work offered by their members. However punishment should not come from banks, IBA etc.

In case their is a big fraud where in valuer is beneficiary by way of getting huge some of money out of loan amount than may be as per law processions should happen. However in most cases valuer just offered his report and no way engaged in the entire fraud done by bankers and borrower together.

So be educated about prevailing system in finance world before blaming valuers. I know valuers work is sub standard in nature. That does not mean that we should blame each other. First bank should offer decent fees to protect tax payers money to acquire good quality report. Than only change will come. As good renumeration will attract good talent.

Today most valuers offers their services alone, where is the Carree even they can't afford to keep a assistant. How on earth you thing he/she will be in position to do good work at fast speed required by banking and finance industry. First IOV and others Institute recognize the need of profession than only they will able to over come problems faced by bankers.

1) Capital Loan should be available to valuer at low interest rate to establish his office.

2) Legal aid should be available to valuer at phone call away with reasonable rate to attack day to day problems

3) Skilled and unskilled Office staff should be available to valuer like other profession where in articles need to compulsory work for three years at 2500/- monthly stipend(As in case of CA).

4) Marketing and IT Support as well as brand building support should be available.

5) There should not be Que approach every where and valuers efforts in impalement should be eliminated with single licensing system with banking authorities.

6) Financial security after retirement, disability etc. should be though off in the beginning of career.

7) Yearly award should be presented city wise to do good work.

I have already given a paper in the seminar and published in IOV megazine. My wish list as valuers and do's and don't by valuers , ethics etc.

 

DO you expect an engineer to work for Rs.500/- a day liek a daily wage worker and do not get moeny if he take one day off and after retirement get nothing as he/she cant save money in Rs.500/- a day and invest for pension after retirement.

Obviously he / she will get greedy for money and go for over valuation or under valuation as the case may be for getting some extra money to satisfied his financial social need.

So come to the right point first and do not suggest something adverse to valuers brothers at-least in this forum where alert valuer like me and TD Suresh Babu are present.

The most dangerous is the valuers who join the profession after retirement from his good paying job. They like to impress their seniority in the career they enjoyed in past. However they are the worst in their dealings. Hence before issuing membership to every one our professional institute should come out with proper rules and regulation for their members.

If they can not control their members than how on earth you are bothered about tax payers money with a such a large tax payers base where non tax payers are most rich and politician bring all the scheme to make their earning non taxable.

Sir live in the present scenario and don't try to take side our institutes who are doing enough to save their reputation and their members interest and just become silent spectator.

Thank You,

Mohit Mehta

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djagan1949



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Mohit Mehta,

Evaluation by bank is only where dispute is there and bank likely to take penal action on valuer. I never even remotely mentioned that routine works to be evaluated by bank. I sincearly feel you have misunderstood my comments in a different way and in a negative perception.

Fees is a different thing whether valuer takes good fee or do service free of cost the work should be near accurate.

Regards

Vr. D. Jagannathan

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